Welcome back to Reading The Great Hunt! This week Rand and Egwene both find themselves in a new society with new rules, and both of them are preparing to learn some possibly uncomfortable lessons. But there’s good news too, in the formation of new friendships and the return of old ones, and also a little bit of gratuitous shirtless boys.
Chapter 24 opens with Egwene following an Accepted named Pedra through the halls of the White tower. She observes the other woman’s dress, white like the one Egwene has been given, but with colored stripes along the hem, and thinks of Nynaeve, who has also been given an Accepted’s dress and the golden ring of the serpent eating its own tail, but who now seems to Egwene to be haunted by the trial that gained her that status.
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The Great Hunt
Pedra shows Egwene to her room, curtly explaining that she is being given some free time on her first day, and that she is expected to be in the scullery “when the gong sounds High, and not one moment later.” Egwene gives her a respectful curtsy but then sticks her tongue out behind Pedra’s back; she has already developed a dislike for the woman.
In her room, which is quite sparse, Egwene meets Elyane, who immediately strikes her as poised and elegant. Elayne surprises her by knowing Egwene’s name and where she’s from. She explains to Egwene that someone who has been in the Tower for a while is always assigned to a new novice to help her learn her way around. She explains how Egwene’s schedule will work, the time spent training and the time spent doing chores.
Elayne’s blue eyes took on a thoughtful expression. “You were born with it, weren’t you?” Egwene nodded. “Yes, I thought I felt it. So was I, born with it. Do not be disappointed if you did not know. You will learn to feel the ability in other women. I had the advantage of growing up around an Aes Sedai.”
Egwene is curious about how Elayne could have grown up around Aes Sedai, but the other woman continues, explaining that Egwene shouldn’t be frustrated if she can’t do much with the One Power right away, or even for a while. In time, however, she will learn to sense the ability in other women and to see when they are channeling. Egwene answers that she has had a little training already, and summons a sphere of light above her hand. Elayne responds by doing the same, and Egwene is startled to see a faint light glowing around the other woman. She gasps and drops her hand, but not before Elayne has a chance to see the same glow around Egwene. The two bond over the fact that this is the first time either of them has been able to see the channeling, and agree that they are both going to be good friends.
Then, Elayne asks if Egwene knows Rand, and Egwene suddenly remembers the story Rand told of meeting the Daughter-Heir of Andor and realizes who Elayne is. Elayne confirms it, but adds that if Sheriam knew she’d mention it, she’d definitely be called into her study. Egwene asks why everyone talks about such an event like it’s such a very big deal, and Elayne tells her that Sheriam keeps a willow switch on her desk, and that there are so many rules for novices that it is very hard to never break any. Egwene is horrified, insisting that they are not children and should not be treated as such.
“But we are children. [Elayne answers] The Aes Sedai, the full sisters, are the grown women. The Accepted are the young women, old enough to be trusted without someone looking over their shoulders every moment. And novices are the children, to be protected and cared for, guided in the way they should go, and punished when they do what they should not. That is the way Sheriam Sedai explains it. No one is going to punish you over your lessons, not unless you try something you’ve been told not to. It is hard not to try, sometimes; you will find you want to channel as much as you want to breathe. But if you break too many dishes because you are daydreaming when you should be washing, if you’re disrespectful to an Accepted, or leave the Tower without permission, or speak to an Aes Sedai before she speaks to you, or…. The only thing to do is the best you can. There isn’t anything else to do.”
Egwene is shocked, but Elayne explains that even though there are not enough Aes Sedai, even though there are at this moment only 40 novices in the Tower, the Aes Sedai cannot lower their standards, cannot accept women to full sisterhood who cannot channel well enough, or who will allow themselves to be intimidated, or who will give up when things get difficult. Egwene remembers being told some of this, but she never thought about there not being enough Aes Sedai. Elayne explains that Sheriam has a theory that, because of three thousand years of Red Ajah hunting down men who could channel, the Aes Sedai have been culling the ability to channel out of humankind.
Elayne then asks after Rand, annoying Egwene but also scaring her a little; after deciding that there is no way that Elayne could know about Rand’s ability to channel, she answers that she last saw him riding with the Shienarans. Elayne admits that she finds herself thinking of Rand in odd moments, and mentions Elaida’s interest in him. Hearing that a Red is interested in Rand puts Egwene on edge again, and she hurries to insist that she doesn’t know where Rand is now, but Elayne assures her that she has no intention of telling Elaida where Rand is. Besides, Elayne hasn’t seen her since the day they arrived.
She decides that she wants to take Egwene to meet two other girls who also know Rand. Egwene observes that Rand knows a lot of girls, and Elyane seems confused by the comment, but continues to explain that one is a girl named Else Grinwell who met Rand and Mat when they stayed at her father’s farm, and they inspired her to want to run away and be an Aes Sedai. Egwene huffs, annoyed, but further discussion is cut off by the sudden appearance of a man, tall and dark haired, who looks very sad and stands staring at them until an Accepted appears and tells him that he is not supposed to be there. She directs him back to the garden, the man complaining, sorrowfully and yet idly, that they are always watching him, and that they are probably just afraid he will find a knife to turn on himself. The Accepted leads him away.
“Logain,” Elayne said when he was gone.
“The false Dragon!”
“He has been gentled, Egwene. He is no more dangerous than any other man, now. But I remember seeing him before, when it took six Aes Sedai to keep him from wielding the Power and destroying us all.” She shivered.
Thinking of Rand, Egwene asks if men with the Power must always be gentled, explaining that she would have thought the Aes Sedai would look for another way, since the greatest feats of the Aes Sedai required male and female channelers. Elayne responds that they did try, for three hundred years, before they realized there was no other way to find.
They continue on to a different garden then the one Logain is in, where they meet Min, who Egwene recognizes from Baerlon. Min recognizes her too, but assures her she holds no ill will after what happened, given how much gold was sent to Master Fitch. She and Elayne tease each other a little, and then Min asks how Rand is, sparking more annoyance in Egwene. She responds curtly, asking Min what she is doing in Tar Valon since she is clearly not meant to be an Aes Sedai. Elayne explains to Min that Egwene likes Rand.
“I know.” Min glanced at Egwene, and for an instant Egwene thought she saw sadness—or regret?—in her eyes. “I am here,” Min said carefully, “because I was sent for, and was given the choice between riding and coming tied in a sack.”
“You always exaggerate it,” Elayne said. “Sheriam Sedai saw the letter, and she says it was a request. Min sees things, Egwene. That’s why she’s here; so the Aes Sedai can study how she does it. It isn’t the Power.”
Min points out that a request from an Aes Sedai is like being commanded by a Queen with an army, and, when Egwene is confused, they explain the auras that Min sees around people. Min claims that she does not usually know what the things she sees mean, although she did see the crown of Andor and knows that Elyane was the future Queen. When Egwene asks what Min sees when she looks at her, Min mentions a white flame, among other things she doesn’t understand.
Just then, two shirtless young men pass by, looking sweaty and carrying sheathed swords. Egwene is immediately struck by the handsomeness of one of them, so much so that she hardly registers the introduction of Galad and Gawyn. Galad immediately bows over her hand.
“If your duties allow,” Galad said, “I would like to see you again, Egwene. We could walk, or if you obtain permission to leave the Tower, we could picnic outside the city.”
“That—that would be nice.” She was uncomfortably aware of the oth- ers, Min and Gawyn still with their amused grins, Elayne still with her scowl. She tried to settle herself, to think of Rand. He’s so . . . beautiful. She gave a jump, half afraid she had spoken aloud.
“Until then.” Finally taking his eyes from hers, Galad bowed to Elayne. “Sister.” Lithe as a blade, he strolled on across the bridge.
“That one,” Min murmured, peering after him, “will always do what is right. No matter who it hurts.”
“Sister?” Egwene said. Elayne’s scowl had lessened only slightly. “I thought he was your… I mean, the way you’re frowning…” She had thought Elayne was jealous, and she still was not sure.
“I am not his sister,” Elayne said firmly. “I refuse to be.”
“Our father was his father,” Gawyn said dryly. “You cannot deny that, unless you want to call Mother a liar, and that, I think, would take more nerve than we have between us.”
For the first time Egwene realized that he had the same reddish gold hair as Elayne, though darkened and curled by sweat.
“Min is right,” Elayne said. “Galad has not the smallest part of humanity in him. He takes right above mercy, or pity, or… He is no more human than a Trolloc.”
Gawyn jokes about Galad’s interest in Egwene and the two argue a little about the value of swordplay, before Elyane mentions to Gawyn that Egwene knows Rand.
“Of course,” Gawyn said slowly. “Such a strange fellow. A shepherd, he said, though he never looked or acted like any shepherd I ever saw. Strange. I have met all sorts of people, and they’ve met Rand al’Thor. Some do not even know his name, but the description could not be anyone else, and he’s shifted every one of their lives. There was an old farmer who came to Caemlyn just to see Logain, when Logain was brought through on his way here; yet the farmer stayed to stand for Mother when the riots started. Because of a young man off to see the world, who made him think there was more to life than his farm. Rand al’Thor. You could almost think he was ta’veren. Elaida is certainly interested in him. I wonder if meeting him will shift our lives in the Pattern?”
Egwene is struck by Gawyn’s musings, about how she never really thought much about Rand’s ta’veren nature because he was always just Rand to her. But she thinks of how ta’veren really did move people, whether they wanted to be moved or not, and suddenly feels the urge to tell the other girls how much she likes them and how she wants to be their friend. They end up in a group hug, confusing Gawyn, who only gets giggling in response.
“We three are tied together,” Min [says], “and we cannot let any man get in the way of that. Not even him.”
Gawyn tells them not to mention Rand to Elaida, as she has been quite intent about finding out more about Rand, and as if his words summoned her, he catches sight of Elaida and quickly leaves, not wanting to get a lecture for having his shirt off. Elaida approaches them, and something about her strikes Egwene as hard. Elida is greated by Elayne, who introduces Egwene. But Elaida upbraids her for speaking so familiarly, reminding Elayne that she is not the Daughter-Heir here, but a novice. A gong strikes and Elaida sends them off to their chores, instructing Elayne to see the Mistress of Novices in her study after, for speaking to an Aes Sedai before being spoken to.
As they run off, quietly vowing to each other that they will be Aes Sedai one day, Egwene hears Elaida speak to Min, asking about why Moiraine summoned her.
When Min is finally able to get away from Elaida’s questioning, she is coated in sweat and anxious to make sure the Aes Sedai isn’t following her. She had been surprised that Elaida knew Moiraine had summoned her; that was supposed to be a secret only Moiraine and Sheriam knew. And Elaida had asked so many questions about Rand. Min managed not to give anything away as she lied and said that she had never heard of him, and she thinks privately that she does not want to fall in love with a farmboy she’s only met once. She hopes Moiraine will come soon, to tell her what she wants of Min so that Min can leave.
Meanwhile Rand is doing his best not to chafe under his “escort” of Cairhienin soldiers. Approaching the walls of the city, they pass through the Foregate, a bustling community that grew up from markets that existed at each gate in the city walls. Despite the tangle of the crowds and the general shabbiness of the place, Rand finds that he rather likes the bustling community, full of vendors calling their wares, people in brightly colored clothes, and even street performers. Tavolin is dismissive of the peasants, and Hurin explains to Rand that the community is comprised of the families of farmers who were displaced during the Aiel War. Too afraid to return to their lands near the Spine of the World, the people all stayed and now live in the Foregate. As a result, the King has to have barges of grain from Andor and Tear, since there are no more farms in the east. But Hurin cautions Rand not to speak of it in front of the Cairhienin; they like to pretend that the Aiel War never happened, or at least that they won it.
Seeing a procession of huge puppets in the street, which include fanciful creatures and what appears to be meant to be a Trolloc (Hurin observes that clearly none of these people has ever seen a Trolloc) Rand asks if there is some kind of festival. Loial explains that Galldrian keeps the people quiet by paying for entertainers to be always in the Foregate, including Illuminators who set off fireworks many nights. Rand has never heard of Illuminators leaving their home in Tanchico to put on displays for anyone but a ruler, and is perplexed by this city. They come to a guardhouse, where they are instructed to wait while Tavolin goes inside. As they sit on their horses and wait, Rand takes the opportunity to look over the city. In contrast to the Forgate, the architecture and people of Cairhien are sparse, dark, and stoic. He can also see tall towers with workmen surrounding them.
“The Topless Towers of Cairhien,” Loial murmured sadly. “Well, they were tall enough to warrant the name, once. When the Aiel took Cairhien, about the time you were born, the towers burned, and cracked, and fell. I don’t see any Ogier among the stonemasons. No Ogier could like working here—the Cairhienin want what they want, without embellishment—but there were Ogier when I was here before.”
Tavolin returns from the guardhouse with another officer and two clerks. He makes introductions, referring to them as “Lord Rand of House al’Thor, in Andor, and his man, called Hurin, with Loial, an Ogier of Stedding Shangtai.” A clerk holds open a large ledger book and the officer, Asan Sandair, writes their names down and instructs Rand that he must return the next day and inform them which inn he is staying in. Rand asks about inns in the Foregate, shocking everyone, and at a hastily whispered admonishment from Hurin, assures the Cairhienin that they will find somewhere in the city. Rand also asks if they are familiar with Selene, and Sandair promises to make inquiries and share what he learns with Rand when he returns to the guardhouse.
Despite the fact that even Loial doesn’t draw much attention, Rand feels like people are looking at him as they make their way through the streets. Hurin, who has been in the city a few times before, leads them to an inn called The Defender of the Dragonwall. A hostler takes their horses, and the other guests in the common room don’t seem to take any notice of them, bur Rand still feels like everyone is sneaking glances when he isn’t looking. The innkeeper gives them an odd look as he takes in Loial with the blanket-covered chest, Hurin with their bags, and Rand in his coat with the heron-marked blade at his side, and Rand realizes as they are greeted that the man took him, for a moment, to be Aiel. He itches to be out of the place, but knows that it is the most likely place to rendezvous with Ingtar, and of course there is also Selene, out there somewhere waiting for them.
They get two rooms that connect, since Rand, despite his protests, needs to at least somewhat appear like a lord, and once they are alone he declares his intention to go back to the Foregate, at least for a little while, because he can’t stand the way it feels like everyone in the city is always looking at you. He asks which one of them is willing to take first watch over the chest, and Loial volunteers, saying that he wants to catch up on some reading. When pressed, however, he admits that he is wary of running into any other Ogier who might wonder what Loial is doing out on his own, and Rand is reminded that Loial essentially ran away from home to see the world. Rand invites Hurin to come with him instead, but Hurin also would rather stay—there are too many brawls and such in the Foregate and it stinks to him—and asks Rand’s permission to have a drink in the common room instead. Rand reminds Hurin that he doesn’t need Rand’s permission for anything, to which Hurin responds “As you say, my Lord,” and gives a bit of a bow.
They head down to the common room, where Cuale, the innkeeper, surprises Rand with a tray bearing three folded and sealed parchments; invitations from three Houses.
Who would send me invitations?” Rand turned them over in his hand. None of the men at the tables looked up, but he had the feeling they were watching just the same. He did not recognize the seals. None was the crescent moon and stars Selene had used. “Who would know I was here?”
“Everyone by now, Lord Rand,” Hurin said quietly. He seemed to feel eyes watching, too. “The guards at the gate would not keep their mouths closed about an outland lord coming to Cairhien. The hostler, the innkeeper… everybody tells what they know where they think it will do them the most good, my Lord.”
With a grimace, Rand took two steps and hurled the invitations into the fire. They caught immediately. “I am not playing Daes Dae’mar,” he said, loudly enough for everyone to hear. Not even Cuale looked at him. “I’ve nothing to do with your Great Game. I am just here to wait for some friends.”
Hurin is horrified, and begs Rand not to do such a thing again, surprising Rand with the suggestion that he will receive more invitations. Hurin assures Rand that he will, that every lord and lady in Cairhien plays it, and by denying that he is playing it at all, Rand has probably convinced everyone that he is very deep in the game. Furthermore, he has now made enemies of three noble Houses, though they are probably not great ones, since they moved so quickly. Hurin urges Rand to answer all other invitations, to decline if he wants, and begins to go into details about what people will read into his responses, but Rand cuts him off to reiterated that he will have no part in the game and that they are there to wait for Selene. He tells Hurin to have his drink.
He stalked out angrily, not sure whether he was angry with himself, or with Cairhien and its Great Game, or Selene for vanishing, or Moiraine. She had started it all, stealing his coats and giving him a lord’s clothes instead. Even now that he called himself free of them, an Aes Sedai still managed to interfere in his life, and without even being there.
A guard takes note of Rand passing out into the Foregate but Rand ignores him, following the sound of music and laughter, and Rand finds that, while his coat is in much better shape than those of the Foregaters, he still doesn’t stand out as much, now that he is surrounded by people in just as many bright colors as he is. He watches another procession go by, and Rand watches a Trolloc puppet be easily defeated by the puppet of a crowned man.
Rand begins peering into the doorways of the large, windowless buildings that line the streets. Inside he discovers performers, jugglers, and gleemen who remind him of his old friend, Thom Merrilin. Hurrying on, he discovers a woman in a white dress performing tricks, and the man at the door tells him it costs two coppers to “see the Aes Sedai.” Rand hurries away again, and makes his way through the crowd. He’s unsure about where to go next when suddenly he hears a voice, a deep sonorous voice accompanied by the plucking of a harp.
The voice drew Rand like a rope. He pushed through the doorway as applause rose within.
“Two coppers, my good Lord,” said a rat-faced man who could have been twin to the other. “Two coppers to see—”
Rand dug out some coins and thrust them at the man. He walked on in a daze, staring at the man bowing on the dais to the clapping of his listeners, cradling his harp in one arm and with the other spreading his patch-covered cloak as if to trap all the sound they made. He was a tall man, lanky and not young, with long mustaches as white as the hair on his head. And when he straightened and saw Rand, the eyes that widened were sharp and blue.
“Thom.” Rand’s whisper was lost in the noise of the crowd.
Holding Rand’s eye, Thom Merrilin nodded slightly toward a small door beside the dais. Then he was bowing again, smiling and basking in the applause.
Rand goes where he is directed, waiting in the wings of the stage with other performers limbering up around him, until he is joined by Thom, who, other than moving with a bit of a limp, seems much like his old self, eyeing a juggler disdainfully and complaining that the audience only ever wants to hear The Great Hunt of the Horn. He gives Rand a once over and declares that he looks like he is doing well.
Rand, overjoyed, tells Thom that he was sure that he was dead, even though Moiraine said that he was still alive, and apologizes for not going back to help him. Thom replies that Rand would have been a fool to do so; the Fade had no interest in him and left him quickly—after giving him the present of a stiff leg—to pursue Rand and Mat. He asks after Moiraine, and seems even a little disappointed that she isn’t with Rand.
“Too bad, in a way. She’s a fine woman, even if she is….” He left it unsaid. “So it was Mat or Perrin she was after. I won’t ask which. They were good boys, and I don’t want to know.” Rand shifted uneasily, and gave a start when Thom fixed him with a bony finger. “What I do want to know is, do you still have my harp and flute? I want them back, boy. What I have now are not fit for a pig to play.”
Rand assures Thom that he still has his belongings, and promises to bring them to him. The make arrangements to meet at The Bunch of Grapes, where Thom is staying, and he returns to the stage to give the audience one more tale.
Rand is not the only person who is happy to see Thom again. As you all know, I was convinced from the get-go that until we saw a body he was definitely not dead, especially once Moiraine had the same opinion. But what I really want to know is more of his backstory with the Queen of Andor, and more about his nephew while we’re at it. I am also guessing that there is a bit more to the story of Thom surviving the Fade than “it stabbed me in the leg and then left.”
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The Ruin of Kings
Back in The Eye of the World, the initial group of travelers shared a lot of similarities to the Fellowship in The Lord of the Rings, and one thing that I found interesting about it is that while the role of Gandalf mostly went to Moiraine, there were aspects of that role that were filled by Thom, especially once he and Rand and Mat were separated from the others. He even has the white hair and mustache, and he has the playfulness and surprises of Gandalf the Grey, while Moiraine has the power, seriousness, and otherworldliness of Gandalf the White. Of course, there is also an aspect of Boromir to Thom; he is the other warrior to Lan’s Aragorn, and his “death” is an atonement for a past failure to protect someone like Rand and Mat.
In any case, Fate/The Pattern/Rand’s ta’veren-ness seems to know exactly what Rand needs in this moment of his journey. Since Thom was a bard in a royal court and has extensive knowledge of the world, he’s a perfect person to give Rand some advice and guidance while he is in Cairhien and dealing with all the political machinations of the Great Houses and Daes Dae’mar. Rand might be able to get some helpful information about the Horn from Thom as well. I do wonder if Rand trusts Thom enough to tell him outright about the Horn; he is the person Rand confided in about his dreams, after all, and Rand is definitely the sort of person to put his faith in someone who was literally willing to die to protect him. On the other hand, Rand is also accomplished at hiding things from his friends to protect them. And to protect himself.
But Rand isn’t the only one dealing with political machinations, and Egwene is also going to have to learn her way around some tricky games too— they’ll just be the Game of Ajah instead of the Game of Houses. Elayne is probably going to be a useful friend in that regard, since Egwene has a bit of that sweet, naive farmgirl thing going for her right now. She’s smart though, and I have a feeling that she’ll figure out how to adapt pretty quickly.
I was terribly confused by Elayne’s question “You were born with it, weren’t you?” She already knows that Egwene is the new novice Elayne is supposed to show around, so she can’t just be asking if Egwene has the ability to channel. We’ve heard Aes Sedai use the phrase “born with the spark” before, but there has never been any indication that one can become a channeler in any other way besides being born with the ability, so the what the heck does that question mean?
Also I loved how Egwene was trying to sound modest when she admitted to having had some training already, and then immediately performed the biggest move she knew how to do. Not surprising since she’s been jumping headfirst into channeling since day one, and I have to say that I find Egwene’s ambition refreshing, since it really is about learning the ability for the ability’s sake. With half the characters involved in schemes upon schemes and the other half terrified of their abilities and destinies, Egwene’s motivations are—for the moment—delightfully uncomplicated.
It is interesting to see Rand and Egwene both encountering strange new cultures with rules they don’t understand, and while Rand is still being forced to play the part of a lord when he does not want to, Egwene is in the opposite position of belonging, at least for the moment, on the bottom rung of a social hierarchy. Of course Egwene wasn’t a princess like Elayne, so the adjustment won’t be quite so jarring, but Egwene has plenty of her own pride and may find it difficult being treated like a child again, expected to follow orders without question, to be seen and not heard, and perhaps even be switched for breaking rules she didn’t even know about.
I sense some trouble in the Aes Sedai ranks in that regard. Of course, their need for the kind of break-them-down training that ensures that only the strongest-willed and most powerful channelers make Aes Sedai is clear. In a war against the Dark, I don’t think anyone can really argue that there is a paramount need to ensure that those fighting it are strong enough not to waver in a crucial moment; the whole world could be at stake, after all. But it’s also hard to deny the limitations and liabilities of such training; one doesn’t have to have Nynaeve’s level of stubbornness and self-protective anger to develop some pretty destructive feelings about your fellow Aes Sedai and your place in the world under such treatment.
When, at the end of the chapter, Elayne and Egwene promised each other that they will become Aes Sedai, it didn’t strike me as a brave declaration of not letting opposition prevent them from reaching their goal. Rather, it felt like a hope for revenge, perhaps not literally but certainly in a broader sense; they are already wishing for the kind of power that will make them the ones sending people to Sheriam’s office, rather than the ones being sent. I wonder how many Aes Sedai hold secret resentments against older Sisters who are now ostensibly their equals but who they were once not allowed to speak to before being addressed themselves? How many of the Red Ajah chose that shawl not because they felt a call to protect the world from insane male channelers but because it gave them a feeling of power over others who they could consider and treat as lesser than themselves? How many other Aes Sedai make decisions that are motivated by an unhealthy attempt to engage with feelings of anger, degradation, or resentment that were born when they were a novice or an Accepted and were never dealt with? I kind of doubt the Aes Sedai have psychologists on hand.
And even if an Aes Sedai is able to rationalize and understand the way she was treated—and they do seem to all understand the need, given that Elayne is already able to articulate its importance—will she ever be able to place her full trust in an older sister who may have delivered harsh punishment in the past, or refused to speak to her, or informed on her to Sheriam? Or will she always carry that bit of doubt, a sense of needing to protect herself, and maybe a few close friends, over all others? Even with the limited amount that the reader knows of the Aes Sedai so far, we have seen how strained the relationships between Ajah are, and I wouldn’t be at all surprised if those fractures continue to show and cause problems moving forward in the story.
I was really interested watching Egwene engage with her own jealousy over Rand, and her self-awareness in realizing that these other women’s interest in him might have more to do with his effect on people as ta’veren than some kind of flirtatious or romantic connection. And I was proud of Jordan too; often male writers can fall prey to the stereotyping of young women as catty and more interested in fighting over men than in their own friendships. Instead Min and Elayne recognized Egwene’s feelings about Rand without judgement, and recognized that they’d rather be friends than worry about Rand at all. They see their importance to each other outside of their shared connection to Rand.
Of course, Min doesn’t really have anything to worry about, does she? Since she can see parts of the future and all.
Min’s observation about the fact that Galad will “always do what is right” was another confusing moment to me, probably because the word “right” doesn’t have a very clear meaning. My assumption is that she means what is “lawful” more than “morally correct” given Elyane’s tirade about Galad’s lack of mercy or pity. The interpretation of moral right can vary wildly from person to person, even in a world with a very clear Dark side and Light side, but if the Pattern itself has a sense of what is “right” for the cosmic good, as it were, perhaps that is what Min is seeing. Maybe Galad has a strong purpose within the Pattern that will only become clear to us later. And as I recall, Gawyn also said the same thing of Galad after he found Rand in the garden; “Galad always does the right thing… even when he should not.”
Also, dear readers, can I just say? Elayne, Elaida, Egwene, Gawyn, Galad; that is a lot of the same letters in a lot of different names in one chapter.
I suppose I should have expected to see Logain again, since the moment when Rand witnessed him being taken into the palace in Andor was such a significant one. I think I just assumed that he’d be executed after he was gentled, but I suppose that the Aes Sedai could have use for his knowledge and experience even after he couldn’t channel anymore. The fact that he’s here now and wandering into our heroine’s path probably signals some significance to future events, so I guess I’ll keep my eye out for more of him now.
As far as Cairhien goes, I’ll be glad when Rand is out of there, and not just because I hate typing out the world. That place is creepy. I’m getting vibes of Ba Sing Se from Avatar the Last Airbender, and I’m half afraid if Rand doesn’t start at least pretending to play Daes Dae’mar that someone’s going to kidnap him and brainwash him in a secret facility below a giant lake. One would think that, at this point in his travels, Rand would know that he should at least try to blend in; not that I don’t understand his frustration. He’s gone from being told he’s the Dragon (which he cannot yet accept) to being called a lord and treated like nobility (which he does not see himself as) to being accused of having a lot of secrets and agendas (which he has, they’re just very different than the ones people think he has). It’s got to be very stressful. But I still laughed aloud when Hurin compared him to a man who doesn’t like hornets so he kicked the nest. It is a very apt description of Rand, and I hope for his sake that cooler heads prevail as long as they are in Cairhien.
Next week we get more drama and more danger, and some new information from Thom that even Moiraine doesn’t have. Also, Thom has a girlfriend. But in the meantime, what do you think of Rand’s inability to keep his temper in the common room? Has he just reached the end of his rope? Or, perhaps, does he not take the danger of a place like Cairhien as seriously as he takes the danger of a mirror world or the Shadowspawn? Because I have to tell you, Rand. Pretty sure that is a big mistake.
Sylas K Barrett isn’t really a D&D guy, but if he was he would want to play a character like Thomdril Merrilin.
Sylas, there are two kinds of Aes Sedai. Though technically you can say both are born with the ability to channel, the series makes a distinction. There are the ones who are “born” to channel and ones who can “learn” to channel. The ones who are “born” with the ability will touch the One Source no matter what. It will happen. Something like 3 out of 4 women don’t survive the experience without guidance from an Aes Sedai. These types are also referred to as wilders and are pretty rare. The second type, and the much more common type, are the ones who can “learn” to channel. These types will not involuntarily touch the One Source as the wilders do. They may go their whole life without knowing they could have learned to channel. They have to either go to the White Tower to be tested or are found by Aes Sedai, who can tell which woman have the ability and how strong they will be.
I bet there’s a dive in Tear or Illian called the Topless Towers with tall Carhienen women. Or in Far Madding with tall Carhienen men.
Hi Galad! Hi Gawyn! //I think Gawyn issues later in the series are a response to the trauma he suffers later. He’s a pretty decent sort here.//
Well, unfortunately …
@2 “tall Carhienen”
You mean relatively?
@@@@@ Austin: Isn’t that explanation a spoiler? I don’t believe that has been explained in the narrative yet.
Sylas, the Game of Aes Sedai is Daes Dae’mar. There is no difference. As for Cairhien, think of what country or countries their court and ways of working remind you. If Andor is reminiscent of Great Britian, who would Cairhien be?
Rand Denial Al’Thor that’s our hero’s full name.
While I totally sympathize with his wish to avoid the Cairhienin’s effing game I wish he’d face the fact that he can’t entirely and listen to Hurin’s advice about how to cope with the nonsense. Plunging around like a bull in a China shop yelling loudly that he’s no Lord and not a player obviously isn’t working. I get the feeling Rand wasn’t very socially adept even in Emond’s Field where he knew the rules.
Tom clearly has feelings for Moiraine. Of course it’s ridiculous and impossible. She’s Aes Sedai and he hates and distrusts AS, along with most of Randland.
Speaking of which… Sylas is dead right a out the possible negative affects of AS training. Many AS successfully overcome any dysfunctional behaviors inculcated but other really don’t. Drama ensues.
Egwene, like Rand, is still emotionally invested in a relationship that she knows is now effectively defunct. She feels a reflexive jealousy of other girls’ interest in her man but she doesn’t let those feelings get out of hand or in the way of bonding with Min and Elayne. Eggy will never stop caring about Rand, and at this point in time is determined to find a way to save him from himself, ie channeling. So of course her sight of Logain is very upsetting. Rand could end up like that. And according to recieved wisdom there is no alternative.
One minor quibble: though it’s obviously on a much smaller scale, as the daughter of the mayor/innkeeper in the Two Rivers and likely successor to Nynaeve as village Wisdom, Egwene basically was a princess, just of a much smaller and more isolated kingdom. And she definitely acts like one just as much as Elayne does.
I don’t agree that Egwene’s motivation for pushing ahead is simple love of learning. IMO everything is all about how it advances her towards her goals.
Fun reread again. Your question about being “born with the spark” and what the other option is will be explained better this book. Astute observation about the Game of Ajahs and the limitations of Aes Sedai training. Finally, I thought it was interesting that you said you liked the moment the girls say they won’t let Rand come between them as I recall women commenting on other articles that they don’t like it as “girls don’t act that way”. Maybe they just thought the enthusiastic hugging and outright discussion was unbelievable, though…
There were a couple grammar errors, but the only one I can remember is that you say the population has been culled for three hundred years, but I think that is supposed to be three thousand. Later you discuss how they were trying to work with men for three hundred years despite the taint – with no success, and that is the correct time frame. So I think you just used the same time frame by accident.
@5 – No. All of this was explained in tEotW when Moiriane talks to Egwene (in the cave under the tree while on the run) and when she talks to Nyneave (after the escape from the tainted city I can’t remember to spell).
“because of three hundred years of Red Ajah hunting down men who could channel”
Should be thousand.
Minor correction from the synopsis. “(T)hree hundred years of Red Ajah hunting down men who could channel” should be three thousand years.
@5 mp1952
I’m pretty sure that Moiraine explains the difference between those born with the spark and those who can learn to Egwene and Nynaeve in tEotW.
@11/12 – Fixed, thanks!
Now if we talk about roleplay, I am pretty sure that if I started a compaign I would get a Cairhien Aes Sedai (from a person who has never read the book) as a PC. Just as a thought for Silas.
And all but one have been introduced at the same time in TEOTW.
Btw, Logan is not the only character to keep an eye on, characters will reapear and some are more important than they seem at the beginning. (Elayne, Elaida, Gawyn, Galad, Min and Thom are examples of that here in the 2 chapters, who reapear in the story)
@2 noblehunter: re: Gawyn. I agree. / I liked him in EoTW, and here. It is only later he becomes awful. /
@8 mp1952 I disagree. I think Egwene does have differing motives later in the series, but right now I think she is motivated largely by a desire to learn, wishing to help Rand, and wanting new and different things. After all, she was the only one from Emond’s Field who left of their own volition, and she did so for the sake of adventure and new things.
@9 whitespine: I actually really like it. It is refreshing to have such an emphasis on female friendship, and to have characters who manage to be sensible- no stupid love triangle here. All of the women accept their feelings for what they are.
Sylas- great analysis as usual, especially of the Aes Sedai. And power, political and otherwise, (who has it, who should have it, how it should be used, etc.) is an important theme in the series.
@8 Egwene does love learning for learning’s sake. I remember having this discussion with someone in one of Silas’s posts in book one, and it wasn’t hard to find examples in-text talking about her love of learning. Though there we were specifically discussing how comparable she was to Hermione in her characterization. And at this point, other than some vague notion of helping Rand deal with his “problem,” she really has no other ulterior motives other than wanting to be Aes Sedai that have even been hinted at. Despite multiple views from inside her own head.
And Silas,
I laughed so hard at this. So very very hard.
Thank you as always for giving me something to look forward to on a Tuesday!
Excellent summary, as always. Just some clarifications.
My own take is that you have answered your questions, both in the sense that he does not take the danger as seriously as he should, or rather he sees it all as petty squabbling in view of the larger issues on his plate. To be fair, after having Ba’alzamon appearing to you, facing the Forsaken, trollocks, shadow spawn and the like, this is understandable. Also, I think you are correct in observing that he has reached the end of his rope. As to whether this is a big mistake…RAFO.
I think you have again hit it the nail on the head, though others main quibble about the details. Galad’s “what’s right” does seem to have to do with how he views the world and his morals, but I’ve often thought of it as more along the lines of “lawful,” or kind of “lawful stupid” to quote a nerd saying.
This is every military boot camp/training/military school, well, ever. Even boarding or other schools of decades past. There are certainly problems with the Aes Sedai and the Ajahs, as I’m sure you’ll see more of in the future, but the disciple described here is usually perceived as necessary and “character building.” The problems come, like in real life, when someone with a little authority, as they see it, tends to abuse it. That can be devastating in the strict discipline of places like this, and is–unfortunately–all too in keeping with human nature.
Only a fraction of Channellers are “born with the spark.” These are the ones who will touch the true source and begin to channel no matter what, and suffer the consequences that Moiraine describes to Nyneave if the they are not found and helped. Moiraine, Nyneave, Egwene, and Elayne are all in this category and could be sensed by other women who could channel once their gift started to manifest. Many others posses the potential to learn, but would never develop it on their own without being taught, and are therefore “safe” from the dangers described by Moiraine if they are not discovered. There is a test that can be performed to discover these chanelers. Of course, once these potential channelers begin training and awaken their talent, they are indistinguishable from the “sparkers.”
Many that come to the White Tower to enlist as novices may not even have the ability to channel at all and would be turned away after testing. Others would be added to the novice list due to the ability to learn and have instruction begin, but would take some time to awaken and manifest their ability. This is what Elayne was referring to when she realized that Egwene, like her, was born with the spark and does not need to awaken the ability.
I sympathize with the frustration over similarly named characters, and I can only say it’ll get tougher as the story grows. One I remember most is Sheriam and a not-yet introduced Aes Sedai with a very similar name. It doesn’t help that some places and characters have many names for the same thing. To this point in the story, I believe Lan has been al’Lan Mandragoran, Lan, Gaidan, Dai’Shan, and probably a couple more. Some are names, others are titles, and that will only get worse. (Septs and tribes, anyone?)
I cut my fantasy teeth on Tolkien. Multiple names don’t scare me! ;-D But yeah, it can get confusing.
@15 I also had no problem with it (I abhor love triangles), but that was what I remembered someone saying. I actually just went and found the comment, and while it says “Mostly I love Jordan’s female characters, but this is Not. How. Women. Behave. Ever.” I realize now there is no indication elsewhere in the comment that the commenter is female. So… I don’t know how I got that idea.
Any women have a take on if the scene is an accurate portrayal of teenage females?
@6 – While you think Rand should play Daes Dae’mar /remember, how by not playing it, and throwing away the invites from lesser houses, he ends up getting higher and higher houses to send him inivtes until Just at the most important moment, when he needs to get into the Damodred House to get Fain, and invite comes from that house Ta’vareen at its best/ Come back in like 3 weeks and read m this comment Silas
@20 As someone only a few years older than the girls are here, I don’t find it inaccurate. I both know girls who act like this and have probably been one myself sometimes.
Of course, not all women are alike. If the commenter was female, she may have been basing her claim on her own specific experience. Some of my friends were more serious, some were not. I never wanted to talk about guys when I was a teenager, but I knew plenty of girls who did. Even in college some of my friends constantly wanted to discuss guys and dating, etc., while others preferred not to.
In general, I feel like Jordan has a good understanding of human nature.
Mods:
In Sylas’s second block quote “But we are children. [Egwene answers] ” It should be Elayne that answers, not Egwene.
Re: Galad — he’s the sort of pure lawful who does what is RIGHT by his moral viewpoint, without regard to minor details such as what other people might feel is the best way to handle things. He’s the kid at your school whom you might be friends with, but if he catches you copying answers on a test, he’ll turn you in because (a) it isn’t fair for the teacher to do the work teaching if you’re not going to honestly do the work in class AND (b) it isn’t fair to you to get ahead by nefarious means instead of learning something and applying it. And if you getting caught and flunking the test upsets you, he’ll give a “it was for your own good” speech to you in that “You’ll understand some day and be grateful I did what I did” way.
And in a world where virtually every faction has some sort of “cloak and dagger; behind closed doors” way of working through things, his mindset sticks out like a sore thumb, making him annoying as hell at times to people whom, in theory, he’d be a great ally to in certain situations.
@23 – Fixed, thank you!
Interesting analysis as always, Sylas. I would say that another major influence for the character of Thom would be //Merlin, both for his mentor role toward Rand as well as his disappearance and re-emergence. And Thom’s surname is certainly a reference.
Of course Moiraine is also a major Merlin-figure. So was it Merlin inspiring both, or Merlin inspiring Gandalf and Gandalf inspiring Moiraine & Thom? Or some amalgamation of all the above?
This is all whited out to not draw attention to an aspect that Sylas has not referenced yet, though I have no doubt he will predict Moiraine’s return as soon as she vanishes.//
@@@@@ 24: Absolutely! Galad is the sibling that would never keep a secret from your parents unless it was an unimportant one. Any other he would give you up in a heartbeat. For your own good, as you point out.
For the first ten books or so Sheriam was my favorite Aes Sedai. I’m just going to leave it at that for now; but I’d really like to read her backstory some day.
Sheriam’s culling theory has a glaringly obvious flaw: Among the men, the Red Ajah has only culled those who were born with the spark. Those who would have been able to learn never learned; they had perfectly normal non-channeler lives and passed on their genes to their descendants. But what about the women? In their efforts to keep their numbers up, the Aes Sedai have been vacuuming up all the girls they could find who could learn to channel and otherwise seemed like they might be Aes Sedai material. Aes Sedai rarely marry, according to Lan, and thus mostly remove themselves from the gene pool (despite the fact that all of the five most major Aes Sedai characters get married, engaged or pregnant before the series ends). They’ve been culling harder among the women than among the men. If they want more novices, maybe they should make some?
That “Aes Sedai” street performer will not like the consequences if an actual Aes Sedai finds out that she’s pretending to be an Aes Sedai.
That’s actually much less so in The Wheel of Time than in most high fantasy works. There is of course the Shadow, composed of darkfriends and shadowspawn who serve Shai’tan, but there’s also the other shadow, Mordeth/Mashadar (“shadar” meaning “shadow”), which is a mortal enemy of the Shadow. As for the light side, the Aes Sedai are supposed to be “good guys”, but you’ve already written some insightful criticism that calls into question how good they really are. And how “light” are the Children of the Light actually? Seeing how Aes Sedai and whitecloaks despise each other, and many other people don’t want anything to do with either of them, there seem to be multiple “light sides” as well.
@princessroxana (#6):
Randeni al’Thor :-)
I have read that Jordan based the Aes Sedai’s treatment of novices on the treatment of freshmen at the Citadel, where he went to college. I’m not sure if Jordan saw the system as a double-edged sword like Sylas does, though. It is interesting that Jordan’s experience was with military discipline in a place that wasn’t preparing people for the military (only Citadel ROTC students go into the military in any capacity). Of course, it will be interesting to compare the Aes Sedai organizational structure to that of the military when the books get more into that topic.
And Galad always struck me as a parodic stereotype of the D&D paladin, so beholden to an alignment and code of conduct that they can’t make nuanced decisions as human beings.
@29 It’s an interesting discussion on culling. Let’s say that we are horribly evil and start killing everyone over 6’10. And let’s say we founded an organization to keep on doing it in perpetuity. It’s not very many people, but after 3,000 years would that result in humankind being shorter on average?
It seems to me it would, but that’s just gut instinct. I don’t have the right equations to figure if it would make a difference or not.
Sylas, your analysis has me reading this more closely than I have in the past. Thank you!
I can’t remember how many times I’ve read or listened to the whole series, but this was the first time I even noticed something Min saw around Elayne: // “One of the things she said she saw looking at me was a severed hand. Not mine, she says.” //
My, my. In retrospect, how glaring.
@31:
Height is not strictly genetic. The average height for people of European descent 200 years ago was almost 3″ shorter than it is today. Childhood health and nutrition plays a significant role in how tall you will become, alongside genetics.
My take on Galad has always been that he reminds me of that very specific flavor of Christian that I encounter a lot here in Alabama, that feels very strongly and deeply that everyone, everywhere should use the phrase “Merry Christmas.” And if you try to point out that other belief systems also have holiday festivals within the same time frame, they simply reply with, “Yes, but they’re wrong.” It’s a complete lack of the concept that there are, in fact, other ways to interpret and valuate situation. Meaning no offense to Christians or Christianity in general, all groups have their vein of members that get a side eye from all the other members, that is just the specific mentality that Galad triggers in me, based on my experiences.
@20 Yup, as a woman, Jordan’s women generally are similar to women I know or have known. There’s a higher proportion of extremely stubborn women, but female channelers are not per se a normal cross-section of society, and I can’t say Nynaeve or Egwene are unbelievably stubborn because been there, been that person. The part that raises my eyebrows a little here is how quickly they decide to be friends, but they’re also young women clinging to any familiarity they can find, which happened for me at that age with the same result, so. I am a hypocrite.
@34 I feel like that’s exactly the sort of person RJ based Galad on. He certainly must have encountered plenty of people like that; I know I do in Georgia. Off-topic, I usually point out to them that you want people to have a happy new year, too, right? Is that not another holiday, hence happy holidays even if you insist there is only one religious holiday?
@33 Granted, but the maximum height a person could achieve with the proper nutrition is genetic. Just like the maximum power an Aes Sedai can reach with the proper training is genetic. If Nynaeve didn’t go to the White Tower, she would have no chance of reaching her maximum potential. And those with the spark in-born are generally those with the highest potential. Given that I’m talking about starting my evil anti-NBA plan now and not in the past, the question still stands as originally stated.
Would killing off just that top .1% (made up percentage alert) over enough generations have a measurable impact on the genetic makeup of the population as a whole?
Well, this time you got it almost right. The thing with the spark and being able to learn was explained by Moiraine in the first book. Maybe all are either born with the ability to channel or not. But some with the ability will not start by themselves.
The organization of Aes Sedai plays its part in later problems, of course. But there are other way more direct causes that will come up. It’s like men having beards. Of course being a man plays a part, but a greater part is if the man in question doesn’t shave it off.
//And there is the thing with Thom :-)//
@@@@@8. mp1952 : I think that is the case, but subconsciously. She never realizes what she is doing, that her getting what she wants is not just how the world was made.
@@@@@9. whitespine : Not a big deal, but there are several people who make this mistake in these comments, and I always wanted to write something: That’s not grammar, that’s content. Grammar is things like declination, word order or punctuation.
@@@@@31. tbgh : No. there are so many factors for height, that there will always be people that slip through, unless there are further measures taken, like comprehensive genetic screening and way more understanding for genetic code than we have now.
@@@@@32. jim_merrilin : // Are you talking about Rand loosing his hand? I think that is an example for RJ having a comprehensive outline from the start, but not a complete one. Rand loosing his hand has almost no connection to Elayne, I think RJ had planned for her to have a real part in that, and the story changed later.//
About the culling: I have the strong feeling as if RJ said channeling wasn’t genetic but bound to the soul. Also later we see //how ineffective Aes Sedai are in what they do, they didn’t hoover up all the female channelers, they are fading because they’re too proud to search. They only gentled the men with the spark, that became widely known. Narratively RJ did it this way for the magic/lost things are coming back angle, in story it will be a combination of the wheel saving up channelers souls for the end of the age, and that the Aes Sedai got complacent, I guess.//
Galad just doesn’t concern himself with the things that make morality fraud with conundrums. If someone does something wrong, but the punishment is too severe, he will give that person to the authorities. If the choice is saving one person or 3000, he will save the 3000 without much thought. If he has done something wrong, he will not be deterred by fear of punishment, he will turn himself in. He’s kinda lawful stupid, but we later learn //that he thinks about things, and unusual circumstances can sway him.//
@32, @37
Re: Min’s vision: What if //the “severed hand, not hers” Min saw was really just a bloody hand? A Red Hand. Elayne certainly had major involvement with the Band and its leader.//
@37
Speaking of grammar and typos, I think you mean “fraught,” not “fraud.”
We must remember the danger of and to male channelers is quite real. Saidin IS tainted and touching it WILL drive a man mad. He will die a horrible death and probably take a lot of people with him. Bad as gentling is there really is no alternative, no way out.
//Except the one Rand finds some books later//
What the AS could do is make more of an effort to rehabilitate the men they gentle and help them find something else to live for. //Apparently this can be done. Cadsuane successfully rehabilitates one of her victims to the gratitude of his brother.//
Sylas, could you please resume letting us know which chapters you plan to cover in the next post, or at least which chapters a post covers? I’m rereading along with this Read — as are some others, I believe — and can’t always discern them from your brief header and footer descriptions.
Neuxue delightedly declared Chapter 24 to be “fanfiction.” And it does feature a common fanfic plot. Characters from separate parts of the story are brought together — at a school, no less — where some become friends and seeds are rapidly sown for rivalries and shenanigans. Mind you, the degree of that plot’s popularity was probably less well-known when The Great Hunt was published in 1990, before the 1998 birth of fanfiction.net where anyone and everyone could share our stories with the world.
Sebastian@37:
RE: Culling. This has come up a couple of times on this read already. You are correct… and you’re not. RJ never actually made up his mind about it. In fact, on his own blog, about 18 months before his death, he said this (the link goes to a spoiler):
https://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=211#8
Sylas, my last post sounded better in my head. While a few of your speculations were not right, this time, I like your creative search for the deeper connections :-)
@@@@@38. fernandan : Yup, you’re right. My english is better in speaking than in writing, I knew how it sounded, but didn’t remember that there are two words that sound that way :-)
@@@@@41. Anthony Pero : Thanks, now I will have inklings of RJ operating on both possibilities, when it comes up next time ^^
@40 Thanks for the link to that liveblog. I may have to go read the entire thing. I caught something as I was reading that made me chuckle, and also verified for me that this person was reading for the first time and posting thoughts immediately after reading a paragraph:
Uh huh.
On culling:
//The real difficulty, if channeling is genetic, would be how Seanchan society hasn’t fallen apart yet. We never hear that there is any prohibition on marriage or childbirth for sul’dam, though there IS a huge social sanction on sexual relations with a damane. So if channeling is straightforwardly genetic, there would be two potential sources for marath’damane: the daughters of male learners (and maybe the occasional male sparker who fathered children at a young age) and the daughters of sul’dam. It stretches my imagination a bit too far that generation after generation would blind themselves to the fact that probably about half of all marath’damane were the daughters of sul’dam. Unless you can headcanon in some long-past history in which sul’dam did collectively notice and developed an aversion to having children as a result.//
I stand by my opinion that, while 98% of Jordan’s writing of character is wonderfully realistic and psychologically acute, the giggly-huggy-instant-friends-girls scene makes me cringe every time. (I leave my pronouns to the imagination of tor.com. It amuses me to still be gender-neutral after eight years of being mutantalbinocrocodile.)
I actually find Galad to be quite admirable. He tries to do Right, and most of the negative repercussions of his actions derive from his lack of perfect information //(and he will prove that he is willing to change his course when presented with new data)//. I also think that he does not simply follow Law, //as we see several times where he violates rules or laws in pursuit of Right//. His problem isn’t that he’s Lawful Stupid, it’s that he isn’t omniscient and is operating in a corrupt and selfish world.
Re. Egwene: She has an interesting past when compared to Elayne and considering Novice treatment. As daughter to the Mayor and heir apparent to becoming Wisdom, as @7 says she is something akin to a local princess, but as daughter of an Innkeeper she almost certainly is used to the kind of menial tasks that Novices have to perform as part of their discipline. I imagine that the entire mayoral family had to pitch in the keep the inn running smoothly, especially around the various festivals when people would come in from the outlying farms or when itinerant merchants and such would pass through.
I also see hints of Egwene’s //future vice of thinking that she knows better than literally everyone else and that all others should submit to her plans, though it will get far worse over the course of the series. Sometimes I almost think that she doesn’t see other people as actually people so much as pets that she must care for and clean up after, or at best as children while she’s the only real adult in the room//. It may not be a fair opinion of her, but //she’s rarely fair to anyone else, so poetic justice perhaps//.
I’m with @45 in not actually hating Galad. I think Elayne’s assessment of his character isn’t meant to be taken as author’s intent. It says a lot about her own character and internal morality too: it isn’t a spoiler, given her Book 1 actions, to say that she’s a very independent and flexible person–she isn’t amoral, but her sense of right and wrong is very situational rather than rules-based. We see her in this scene constructing a personal reality to suit her perceptions: she doesn’t view Galad as family, so in her worldview, he isn’t (regardless of the biological facts). He’s a polar opposite: someone who prefers rules and morals to be nailed tightly down. //And he isn’t necessarily wrong: his coup against Valda succeeds to a considerable extent because he has moral authority for the duel. It’s an impeccably legal exercise of trial by combat, and while his accusation of murder is incorrect, the accusation of rape is true. Likewise, his ability to accept the straightforward fact that Rand is his biological brother and turn that to rhetorical advantage is important in AMoL.//
@45, 46
I too do not hate Galad /(though I did thoroughly hate him when I found out he joined the White Cloaks, at least for a short while)/.
I always saw Elayne’s hatred of him as unfair and part of a character flaw (morally speaking, not in Jordan’s writing). I could see not being close with a sibling who is always a rigid rule-follower and who won’t let you get away with mischief, but not hatred to the degree Elayne expresses. And it is juvenile of her to deny that they are related.
@45 re: Egwene: /I don’t utterly despise her as some do, but certainly she is not one of my favorites. She was my favorite early on in TEOTW, but that quickly changed. Interesting idea. She certainly does suffer from thinking she is the only one who can fix things. Her persistence and strength of will can be positive, but it also is very detrimental later in the series/.
Sylas notes “I have a feeling that she’ll figure out how to adapt pretty quickly.” /This is correct in that she adjusted to adventure and life outside of Emond’s field more quickly than the others. And she certainly adapts to life as an Aiel and as an Aes Sedai. However, her whole-hearted embrace of whatever she tries is later combined with a rigidity that does not allow room for others. She is an interesting (when not infuriating) mix of adoption and adherence./
As others mentioned, I didn’t hate Galad right away either, and always thought Elayne’s view of him was a bit of spoiled princess and immaturity. I think Jordan intended for us to see that Galad wasn’t as bad as Elayne said. However, he didn’t help matters when he had Min, in this chapter, say that “He will always do what is right, no matter who it hurts.” At the time it seemed to be backing up Elayne’s assessment of him.
If you think the names thus far are confusing, wait until the story accumulates, for example…*checks the Encyclopedia WoT name list*…///Saerin, Sarena, Sarene, Sarien, Sarin, Seirin, and Serenla./// Granted, those characters (like the many other sets of characters with very similar names) are scattered throughout the many storylines, and most are so minor I had entirely forgotten them, but it can be ruddy difficult to remember whose name is whose and whether I’ve seen a name before.
@43: You’re welcome. I spent several months reading through that liveblog last year and enjoyed it very much.
@30… call me dense, but I think this is the first time I registered Min’s flame viewing… lol
Hm…… I don’t THINK that’s spoilery….
Regarding Galad: He actually breaks a rule right here in this chapter. He’s walking around without a shirt, which he’s not supposed to do outside of the training grounds. Apparently he doesn’t always obey every silly little rule. (Unless that’s actually not a rule, just Elaida trying to enforce her personal opinion on how men should be dressed.)
Regarding culling: It’s conceivable that genes and soul could both be involved in determining channeling ability and strength. Perhaps a person can become a channeler only if they have both the right genes and the right kind of soul? Or perhaps the soul determines ability to channel as a binary property – either the soul can channel or it can’t, and that’s that – but genes determine how strong the channeler can become? Or perhaps the soul makes the difference between being able to learn and being born with the spark, and everything else is genetic? And the genetic component doesn’t necessarily have to be as straightforward as a single dominant gene. It might be a complex system of interacting genes, so that the trait can skip generations or show up unexpectedly in a family of non-channelers. That would make it difficult to figure out, especially if the science of genetics is unknown.
Haven’t had a chance to read the comments yet but:
I think with the Aes Sedai heirarchy – and maybe similiar with strict boarding school/military type training – there’s a bit of an element of indoctrination. Yes, they may resent the treatment they get, but they also crave approval and are invested in that heirarchy, so once they get to the top, they accept it and the ‘necessity’ of having the younger generation go through it. And maybe are mostly glad to be ‘accepted’ by the people they once feared. Although you are right there certainly will continue to be little rivalries and grudges and women who then throw their power around.
So much to say about Min, Elayne, Galad, Gawyn – I’ll just say that I think Galad gets a bad rap in the fandom, although that may be because I’m kind of a rule follower myself, and can get stuck in a cycle of trying to do whats ‘logical’ (even though mercy/grace actually are a big part of my worldview). And yes, he is going to get VERY aggravating and his character development will hit a low point, but personally, I think he has a satisfying payoff in where he ends up. I have somewhat autism-spectrum like traits (and am parenting a son on the spectrum) and so I also relate in a small way to the rigidity he at times employs, even though he’s TRYING to do what’s best. This isn’t to say I think he’s intended to be seen as a spectrum character, but I can relate to some of his traits. Especially when there are characters that truly are self serving, manipulative, unable to introspect, etc (even if they’re on the side of good, or think they are) – Galad is not that dislikeable to me.
That’s a great point you make about how Jordan writes the women characters and their friendships here (let’s just say Rand will intertwine with all of them quite a bit) and it IS refreshing to see them get their own focus and agency instead of literally being pulled around by Rand’s taveren thread.
ETA: Glad to see some other Galad defenders ;) And agreed that Elayne’s inflexible hatred of him is in part her own issue (Elayne was always my least favorite of the super girls, to be honest.)
RE: Galad
What makes him awful, but what no one ever gets around to saying, isn’t that Galad always does what is right. Its that his interpretation of “right”, and, more importantly, his application of what is “right” leaves no room for the likelihood that he is wrong at least part of the time. As we all are. Its that distinct and specific lack of humility that certain people suffer from. They may even perceive themselves as humble, and act out of selflessness, but their very assurance is a form of incredible hubris. Most people who suffer from this trait grow out of it with enough life experience, because life is very, very unkind to people who can’t learn that they don’t know everything.
@53 – oh, absolutely, but //given his ultimate fate, I think he shows that he DOES allow that can be wrong, and is able to show that all important introspection/ability to learn/evolve. If he had never progressed past that – if he had just stayed a generic Whitecloak and bought into the whole thing, then I don’t think there would be as many reasons to defend him or as much of a kind feeling for him towards the end. Unlike, say, Elaida, who remains unrepetantly awful even as she’s convinced shes doing the right thing (perhaps you can blame some of that on Black Ajah/Fain influence) to the point that very few people even felt bad when she was made damane, aside from perhaps the objective recognition of the sheer evil of it.//
Actually, the worst thing about Galad is that //he marries Berelain, which makes me either a)severely question his judgment, or b)feel sorry for him as nobody deserves such a fate. I detest Berelain and she is probably the character who pisses me off the most in the series. More than Faile (whom I actually have a soft spot for even though I recognize she be cray cray and would be intensely frustrating in real life), more than Alanna, maybe even more than Elaida on a sheer personal level and couldn’t stand how on a narrative level she got away with so much, and other characters with more sense even liked her. I 100% understand why she needed to put forth the image she did on a political level, but I felt she crossed several lines unrepetantly and never seemed to have an ounce of self-awareness or remorse about it. //
On Galad. It is infinitely sad that his little sister hates his guts and won’t claim him as a brother. Even worse is the fact he apparently doesn’t understand why she feels like that. Why is Galad so rigid? // The fact he is the only one of Taringail’s children to actually remember him may have something to do with that. Is Galad trying very hard NOT to be an unscrupulous douchebag like his dad? //
Oooh, that’s a good point.
I agree, @57 has an excellent point. And in further spoilers, //Galad is also the one of the three children to have been abandoned by his birth mother. It is likely that he was psychologically attached to Tigraine herself rather than to a wetnurse–she is briefly said to have loved him (Galad). His rigidity sounds a great deal like the result, in young adulthood, of a child blaming himself for being abandoned by a parent, compensating by being “good”, and continuing in the habit long after he has forgotten exactly why the obsession with “behaving himself” started.//
That…actually hurts me right in the heart. This may be the first time I’ve really reread/thought about this since having kids of my own. //You are right, it does say that she left behind a husband she did not love and a son she did. So I imagine there WAS an attachment here. Poor Galad. :( //
@56-59 First of all, how dare you. I did not come here for Galad feels.
I’m amused that Galad gets defenders while //Gawyn gets ignored. No one wants to be on team garbage fire?//
There’s nothing wrong with Gawyn that Nynaeve and her stick can’t cure.
I don’t really have extreme feelings on Gawyn one way or the other. //His taking part in the coup is misguided (I can kind of understand WHY he does it) and cringe worthy, for sure. Although his grudge against Rand in the face of reason gets really irritating. But I guess I feel he’s justly criticized for those things? I don’t totally hate him, though.//
@60: //Nope, no one wants to be on Team Garbage Fire. I liked Iron Fist, and that’s as far as I’m willing to go on Team Irrational Self-Obsessed Immature Men.//
Gawyn and Galad //both have fascinating Arthurian connections and parallels. I actually find that my preference for Galad over Gawyn matches my preference for Galahad over Gawain (and in many ways for similar reasons). Perhaps it’s indicative that Paladin has long been one of my favorite D&D classes (from my youth when I first was introduced to it via Baldur’s Gate and rolled a Paladin as my first character) and I find the Children of the Light to be admirable in concept though abhorrent in execution (it makes sense for such an order to exist in Randland, and part of the tragedy of the Children is how corrupted they have become and how far they have fallen from their original mission).//
Refreshing to see quite a few readers able to see past Elayne’s rampant prejudice against her half-brother. If you really think about how we as readers are asked to come to the conclusion that Galad is an insufferable bore, it’s not through his actions in the story, but what both Elayne & Min say about him early on.
Paying out on him because he told his stepmother that her over adventurous Daughter-Heir, was ‘tending’ to a sword carrying stranger within the castle during a time of civil unrest, is a natural emotional reaction because we’re rooting for Rand in the moment, but it doesn’t stand up to scrutiny on reflection.
And with Galad’s later actions in the series // we actually see Elayne’s prejudice confirmed, more than Galad’s supposed obtuse intractability. He is obviously guilty of the chauvinism most of the male characters display (while in their own minds they see it as a duty, a superior sense of responsibility) towards a ‘damsel in distress’ (Elayne in Sienda & Nynaeve, when Luca’s Circus was in Jehaanah). However, his actions themselves actually display compromise. And it is those compromises that allow both women the room to move in order to save themselves.
He admires the original precepts of The Children of The Light, but recognises the corruption in how they are being applied, which is why he obfuscates to protect Elayne from exposure to Trom in Sienda. He appeals to Nynaeve, but with the asperity of someone who understands and expects she will go her own way, while trying to balance offering as much help as he can, and/or she is willing to accept.//
These actions do not seem to me to be either as maddeningly obtuse as Elayne makes out. Nor as unilaterally unreasonable as sections of the fandom have somehow coalesced into believing. Especially given the setting of the story itself.